Gunplay [Feedback Thread]
#1
Welcome everyone to another feedback thread. Today's topic will be about gunplay in RP and how damage ratios are affecting the state of roleplay. Initially, we have lowered various values on guns and even added some drawbacks to extended spray, as to incentive a more controlled and slow style of gunplay where gun control in bursts are more rewarding, but draw things out as to prolong scenarios. You, the community, feel as if we discourage gunplay, and you have very valid reasons for feeling this way. But i'm here to tell you right now: We do not discourage gunplay in general, we encourage healthy gunplay and discourage uneven, unhealthy gunplay.

We want both sides to feel as if they're on even grounds, with only slight advantages on each side to shake things up. We dont want cops being completely dominated in shoot outs because guns are overpowered in damage and recoil control, so, things have changed as i'm sure some of you have seen. Same thing goes for criminals, say fleeing from a job where they just gunned down several innocents and then get sprayed down when cops see an open window cause again, guns allow the initiator to have an unfair upper hand, it is far too advantageous to the point where one side would literally lose in the blink of an eye without getting much of a fight in return.

We dont want a server where people are human tanks though. What I mean by this is, we dont want people who can take several shots without going down. So, when nerfs occur, if you feel nerfs are too general and too much, then voice your opinion here in this thread. It will be open for quite sometime. just like car handling, gun handling is going to be a forever battle with constantly evolving metas. Sometimes sets of guns vs other guns are just gonna be clearly superior, not based on 100% logic per se, but moreso based on the fact that prolonged metas in any game environment get stale and boring, so expect things to shake up while maintaining a specific balance. We dont want metas to lean towards sides, we want metas to lean towards specific guns vs other guns. So cops will always have good and bad guns and crims will always have guns with a similar standard to mirror that as to create an even ground for everyone.

If you feel like you voiced an unheard opinion in the previous feedback thread, please do not hesitate to share your opinion again. You can even mention what went unheard to me in DMs and I'll make sure it gets to staff, but as it stands I'm pretty sure everyone's opinion was heard in the last feedback thread but on the off chance I missed or skipped anyone who feels this way, just lemme know. 

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#2
I've been thinking of a few things since the damage of guns has been lowered and well before that aswell. I always thought the body armor we can purchase at player owner Ammunation should give full armor I know it was done the way it was for a reason but hear me out. If the armor gave full armor it would also make it useful to police as well. Cops often lose armor say in a car crash or simple misjudging a drop down when chasing a criminal and if they needed to resupply they have to go all the way back to PD to do so but if they armor you can buy gave full armor the police could also purchase some for themselves or in bulk for the PD and they would have spare on hand if needed. As for some of the guns or one that I know of that had the spread changed when damage was still high I think those could possibly be reverted not that they don't hurt as much. Anything else regarding guns I really haven't noticed anything else that I personally feel should be looked at thought I've haven't done much gun play as of late. These are just somethings I've thought about.


#3
Armor (always available), health, no headshots

Having items that restore health (oxy) and items that provide armor is a good step. I think that armor should be more readily available for both cops and crims. This is kind of a basic item imo and it provides for better gunplay. Hopefully crims and cops would realize the situation could be prolonged and turn it into more of a holdout (this is where the fun comes in if the cop force is equipped). I don't know if this is practical for high stakes since the cop force can be lacking at times (no shade), but I do know that the "who gets the jump" mentality is super shitty for any sort of RP or even just a fun scenario.

 I don't think the cop force, as it stands, wants to shoot out with the criminals; when in reality it's fun, gets the heart pumping, win or lose. I would love to see it welcomed, but I don't think that it is the mood of the server. The cop force is either lacking or the distaste from dealing with the same crims over and over is overwhelming. I personally love shootouts but I would not do it here.

When it comes to crim v crim, having readily available armor is huge, huge. Nobody likes a situation where you just get two shot before you can even react, and sadly a lot of people on HS like to get that W. It's hard to trust people to not shoot first. The best solution, imo, is to have a healthy stack of armor on you for crim v crim interactions so that you can tank a couple round and survive that initial fuckery. Obviously a better solution is more mutual respect, but that can be hard to when the first person to start shooting always wins. You are basically forced to shoot first or just lose the scenario if you do not trust the person on the other side to not do the same. Always having armor would make these scenarios much better. It's a shitty way to think about that but it's just the truth in some scenarios.

It's a hard question when I think that the real answer is just a mutual respect, but I do believe the steps the server has taken is the right direction (body armor for crims although it super hard to get and oxy). Getting rid of headshots was good too because you could just delete someone instantly and I know people did that. What I suggested gives a buffer to that kind of mutual respect that I think should be a part of RP. Sometimes your heart gets pumping if a gun is pointed at your character and shots fly. This gives you a buffer to kind of take a step back, RP a little, see what becomes of it, and if nothing does fuck it shoot that shit out.

side notes - 
-foods that provide armor and health (usable by cops and civs). Maybe they are baked by infusing drugs or w.e. but are not illegal to possess. Could provide an interesting market. NOT WHITELISTED, available for anyone to do, and not that hard to get your hands on (but not as limited as armor is atm).
-mutual respect for people, grow the fuck up


#4
Gunplay

Gunplay can be something difficult to balance, there are a multitude of factors to bring in when attempting too. The current state right now of the gun mechanics isn't terrible, but underwhelming for sure. I do agree with others in this statement that bringing in Oxy and armor is a good addition for criminals to have options or feel that they have the upper hand in a situation. It requires that individual to RP with the people whom have those items which could possibly create more scenarios that lead to further things. 

I would have to agree with BickleFuppet, as it stands I believe that cops do not want to have shoot outs with criminals, nor due the criminals want to have shoot outs with cops. I believe here in this server that shooting is taken VERY seriously. I believe it should be taken to that extent but maybe dulled down. I know it may not fit in everyone's back story nor character to shoot, but if you ARE a criminal I believe that gunplay and or gun scenarios should be within your quota at least once a week. I understand that also falls under the lack of conflict within the city as well.

Another addition I would like to state here before wrapping up is cops having a full vest. I believe cops having a full vest of armor is only right and makes sense. I disagree that criminals don't have an option to full plated vest, considering we have a black market for those types of things. I am not open to allow cops to carry extra vests on them, reason being because if there more cops than your group, example... 

A.) You are a group of four hitting UD, you get in a shoot out with cops. There happens to be four cops on scene, your now at a disadvantage because you are only able to have half armor, and now there are more units coming to the scene because shots fired have been given through dispatch. 

At this point you are looking at a prolonged gun fight, which I am MORE than okay with..but then you have other units if there are that many units on duty, showing up to the firefight. I believe if you are going to keep the general public of the city at half armor options, cops should not be able to carry extra vests on them. Maybe one in there trunk as an example due to realism.


#5
@Bicklefuppet, I don't think you've been in a gunfight in a while, it's no longer two or three shots to take someone down, its quite a bit more. First gunfight I saw after the damage nerf took FOREVER. Also, I REALLY like the idea of food 'health items' that can be made as another public, legal job. It would also be an RP job, so people can have another option aside from legal grinding jobs. 


Armor
As for the question of armor, I PERSONALLY, would be fine with criminals being able to have full armor, if cops are able to carry an extra vest as well. Here's my reasoning:

Current state: Cops only get armor from pd, yes it is full armor, but they don't have any extra. Civs can wear one half armor, PLUS carry (I believe) 5 extra on them if they wanted to. Meaning if they get a chance to duck behind a wall, they can reapply. They also aren't illegal, so if you get caught and sent to jail, they won't be taken from you. 
So currently, police get one full armor, and bandages to stop bleeding, plus ice packs. 
Criminals can have 6 half armors, use bandages, and also use ice packs AND Oxy. 

If we allow criminals to have full armor: You need to be able to carry at least one of an item to use it. You now have put your armor on, and you can carry another, just in case you lose your armor and get a second to duck and put on a new vest. 
Now, police AND criminals have full armor, bandages, and ice packs, but criminals can carry at least one extra vest, and also use Oxy to heal. 

I don't think this levels the playing field, unless we allow cops to also carry a vest on them as well. Personal opinion though. 

Another option would be to have half armor more readily available, and have full armor available on the dark web for a higher price. I do still think if we allow for full armor for civs, police need to be able to carry another vest on them as well. 

Gun Handling / Damage
Now, keep in mind, I have just recently learned how to edit gun files, and editing them is tedious. We're really relying on those who get into gun play to give us honest feedback. Some guns should be tweaked to have more or less recoil, or a higher damage. These need balancing. As it stands, most weapon TYPES are on the same level regarding damage. I have only edited the handling of the newest gun additions, aside from the Gusenberg. 


Also, someone mentioned that I should flip the damage output of larger weapons - namely rifles - with the damage output of pistols. I have been told it's still very easy to spray someone down with the way our rifles and SMGs handle, versus gun play with a pistol. 

Feedback on specific guns is helpful, as everything has been generalized and still needs tuning.


  




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